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Joyetech - They Aren't the E-Cigarette Manufacturer You Think They Are!

Joyetech - a fraud!
I've been meaning to write this article for awhile but haven't because I just really wasn't sure if it was worth exposing the truth about Joyetech. Honestly, so many people have been disseminating inaccurate information for so long, actual facts probably stand little chance against their false "truths."

Finally, I said "to heck with it" and, at the risk of pissing some people off who think they know it all, I'm going to tell you the real story about the Joyetech electronic cigarette factory, so here goes ...

At the bottom of the Joyetech website, the following message appears:

"Joyetech is the original manufacturer of Joye 510, Joye 510-T, Joye eGo, Joye eGo-T(Tank System), Joye eGo-C(Changeable system), Joye eGo-C Twist battery Electronic Cigarette, Joye eCab Changeable Atomizer Battery Electronic Cigarette, Joye eRoll, Joye eVic ..."

Now, at first glance, it would seem like they are telling people that they were the creators of these devices and that all others are imposters. That's not what it really says, though. They simply state that they manufactured them first.

"Huh?" you may ask, "Aren't they the same thing?"

I'm afraid not! You see, Joyetech is just a factory; nothing more. They have never invented a single noteworthy electronic cigarette and likely never will. Why should they when they can get other companies to do it for them and then steal their designs?

After conducting several interviews with sources at the very top of the food chain of competing e-cigarette manufacturers, I found out that every single one of the electronic cigarette models that Joyetech mentions at the bottom of their website was invented by either Ovale or Janty. Joyetech was simply the factory that produced the original run for those companies while creating their own clone versions in the process. Here are the e-cigarette models and who really invented them:
Model Inventor
510 Janty as the Dura
eGo Janty
eGo-T Ovale
eGo-C Ovale
eGo-C Twist Ovale
eCab Ovale
eRoll Ovale as the eMini
eVic Ovale
Yes, my friends, not even the much-ballyhooed eVic was a Joyetech creation. Forget the lies they tell you on their website (like here and here and here). Joyetech can claim absolutely nothing noteworthy as their own. They are selling re-runs. Because of that, Joyetech couldn't sue other companies for creating or selling knockoffs of "their" products if they wanted to (Ovale or Janty could, though!).

Side Note: For some reason, Joyetech didn't steal the elips or elips-C e-cigarettes from Ovale. Likely, their distributors thought it was too odd looking and took a pass on it. Too bad for them; Ovale got the jump in that case and the elips-C is probably the best electronic cigarette of them all!
So how in the world did everybody decide that Joyetech had created all of these wonderful devices? Well, that's where the way business in China is conducted and their virtually non-existent (or should we say "unenforced") trademark and patent laws come into play. All it takes is a little renminbi to make those pesky little problems go away!

There is no denying that the Joyetech factory is one of the better plants in China. They've been doing it for quite some time and, even though Joyetech loses nearly 50% of their workers every year because they find better paying opportunities during China's annual two week Spring Festival break, Joyetech is able to retrain a whole new crop of starving factory hands within three months. Because they have a solid reputation, Janty and Ovale chose to use the Joyetech factory to manufacture their inventions.

After the technical drawings are submitted to Joyetech, a prototype is created for final approval by the company who invented the electronic cigarette. Once approved, the shenanigans begin. Joyetech then contacts their vast network of authorized distributors and provides them with samples of the initial run. When they like the new model, the distributors and Joyetech management press hard for relabeling rights, reasoning that they can only sell official "Joyetech" products. Janty and/or Ovale are then told that if they want the e-cig made, they will have to give up their exclusive rights to it and allow Joyetech to market their own brand.

So, what can the true inventors of these devices do? Joyetech already has the plans and if the true inventors say "no" to re-branding, Joyetech can produce the e-cig at one of their shell companies while Janty or Ovale start the process all over again with another manufacturer. This would give the other company a HUGE head start on marketing and by the time the real McCoy is produced, it becomes a "so what" in the fast moving world of e-cig innovation. It's bad enough that Joyetech steals the first run for themselves and stamps it with their own logo, thereby creating the impression that they were the original inventors; at least Ovale and Janty can come within a month or two of Joyetech's initial release by allowing Joyetech to manufacture it for them. It would be a 6-12 months if they started all over again with another factory and who's to say that factory wouldn't steal it, too?

Side Note: Joyetech did not even wait for final approval of the eGo-C Twist before they started pumping out their own versions, which must be why theirs had so many problems initially.
Nice little corrupt system they have going on over there isn't it? It's no wonder that the Gucci, Coach Bag, Thomas Sabo, Tiffany and Nike's of the world have made little progress in stopping all of the counterfeiting that goes on in China. Even Chinese companies can't stop the company across the street from stealing their ideas!

If you return to the Chart of Models, you will notice that Janty stopped letting Joyetech manufacturer their new products after their second one was stolen by Joyetech - the eGo. The writing's on the wall. Ovale, too, is likely quite fed up with the crap being pulled by Joyetech. They may very well just be waiting for their pending patents to come through on all of the models they invented that Joyetech calls their own. Then, who knows if Joyetech will ever see another new e-cig tossed into their lap?

So, "what's the difference?" you may ask. Joyetech makes the model for the other companies so the ones they make for themselves should be identical, right? Well, even if you have absolutely no morals at all and want to think that way, there may very well be a difference when it comes to quality control. According to a top executive at one of companies, they certainly have rejected some of the runs made by Joyetech due to poor quality control. One can only wonder if Joyetech does the same for the ones stamped with their own logo (highly unlikely!). Talk to owners of a Janty product or one made by Ovale, and 9 out of 10 will tell you that they think the Janty or Ovale ones are better than the Joyetech versions. I'd have to agree!

So, the next time you see someone on a forum talking about someone selling a fake or a clone of anything Joyetech calls their own, ask yourself, "is there really such a thing as a fake, fake?" And please, don't ever call something made by Joyetech an original. You're embarrassing yourself!

One Final Note: I have chosen not to name the manufacturing executives that have provided me with the above information. There is no reason to subject them to reprisals by either their own company or by Joyetech. That said, nothing outlined above can be factually refuted.
E-Cig Express Quote of the Day: "My fake plants died because I did not pretend to water them." - Mitch Hedberg

This entry was posted by Scott McKirahan. Bookmark the permalink.

53 thoughts on “Joyetech - They Aren't the E-Cigarette Manufacturer You Think They Are!

  1. thats a sad picture you paint.the scratching and clawing of corporate greed will some day be the fall of man.plenty are willing to jump on the band wagon for the fall of corporations but when they fall so does the comforts of home.the double edge sword will certainly play a big role in these matters

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    1. Interesting article - thanks for posting. After all I cannot really agree that it is that much bad. At the big picture, everyone makes profit - in the end, profit goes to the better product and or marketing companies. Ovale etc can everytime decide to produce on their own - if they don't want to do so they have to rely on others - simple thing. That's competition.

      Look what apple is doing currently - thanks to patent law - is that better? not really. it's worse.

      In my opinion - who makes the better product (no matter if it is quality or marketing related) will get the best profits - not the one who invented it or who was first.

      That's healthy competition. Look at cars - what hell of a world would it be, when only ford would be allowed to built cars because they were the first who do it industrialy? Get the point? Patent Law is hell and has nothing to do with competition.

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    2. While agree with you about the whole concept of a generic product that is then improved upon or at least made different, that's not what is happening here. It is the same exact product. I'm quite sure if Ford duplicated the Corvette and called it something else, Chevy might have a bone to pick with them.

      More than anything, I wanted people to realize how idiotic it is to call anything a "fake" Joye, unless, of course, people are specifically saying a model is made by Joyetech when it is not. There is no such electronic cigarette company named "Joye."

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    3. I think you made a little mistake on the line of the ballyhooed evic, invented by Ovale,,,,right it says joyetech. How about the ego-c upgrade batteries that go to unregulated mode when you turn off and hold button for 10 seconds? Can we attribute that to Joye. Thanks for the great reporting!

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    4. Nope; no mistake at all. The eVic was the most blatant abuse by Joyetech of them all. They started producing Ovale's prototype as their own "invention" before Ovale even gave them the go-ahead to start making it for Ovale. That's the main reason that Joyetech's eVic was so buggy when it first came out. There were a couple of design flaws that had to be worked out, which Ovale did before telling Joyetech to start mass producing it for them. Since then, Ovale has introduced one new product to the market - the Cylo - and it's the first product of theirs that they did not commission Joyetech to produce - a trend I believe that will continue.

      I am unfamiliar with an "eGo-C upgrade battery," so I cannot comment on it. An eGo-C battery is the same as the original eGo battery, which is the same as the eGo-T battery. I find it hard to believe Ovale (or even Joyetech) would make a battery that doesn't have an automatic shutoff at some point. It's an explosion (and lawsuit) waiting to happen!

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  2. One Final Note: I have chosen not to name the manufacturing executives that have provided me with the above information. There is no reason to subject them to reprisals by either their own company or by Joyetech. That said, nothing outlined above can be factually refuted.

    I read this piece with great interest, and tried to place myself as both a consumer and as a vendor, even tho I am not a vendor. So my first thought is this: How can you say "nothing outlined can be factually refuted" without providing factual proof from factual people about a subject you are factually trying to outline?

    This article makes a good argument and it's very compelling as to it's assertions. As a consumer I want to know about this kind of shit. I want to be informed, good and bad, about something that has helped me kick analogs off my daily routine. But to say that "nothing outlined above can be factually refuted" without providing proof is factually dangerous in the conclusions one could draw without proof and therefore, is effectively, hearsay.

    That's like saying, "I'm going to prove something to you, without actual evidence because of BLAH BLAH WHATEVER, and it's something you can't refute.

    That said, nothing outlined above can be factually refuted.

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    1. Like I said at the beginning, there will inevitably be some people who choose to believe the lies they have been fed for years and there is nothing I can do about that. I certainly am not going to "out" the executives who were kind enough to provide me with the information. I promised to keep their names out of the article and I keep my promises.

      Even providing their names would not be "proof" of anything. All I can do is tell you what I have been told by top industry execs so that e-cig consumers can "be informed, good and bad, about something that has helped [them] kick analogs ..."

      Unfortunately, short of recording the meetings that go on between these companies with hidden surveillance equipment, real "proof" would be very hard to come by. Maybe this thread from a well-respected forum will shed some further light onto this for you From the inventors of the ego comes the Janty Neo Classic.

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  3. This sounds bad but not as bad as what I have heard from someone in the ecig industry. Joytech isn't a manufacturer, they are a wholesaler and thy get their ecigs from the same factory in china that smoktech and vision get their batteries. That all the ego style batteries are made in the same factory, just the ones for the different wholesalers have their own details put on the devices i.e. the difference between the vision spinner and the ego twist. But their internals are all the same. So when you buy a joyetech your not paying for a better device at higher standards you are paying for the name.

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    1. Joyetech is, indeed, a factory and not merely a wholesaler. If you look at Ovale products, they DO state that they are manufactured by the Joyetech factory.

      Now, as far as companies re-branding products goes, if you have a minimum order of 500 units, Joyetech will stamp whatever you want on them. We explored this, ourselves, awhile back. It is not at all far-fetched to believe that many companies' products are being made at Joyetech. There are only a handful of actual e-cigarette factories. If you think nJoy, bluCig or GreenSmoke is a true manufacturer, for instance, you are kidding yourselves. They are just major re-branders.

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  4. Very informative. Thanks, Scott. I have been trying to sift through the many, many brands and models that Joytech produce and label - in particular the chronology of the various models - and was getting confused. Chinese business culture is often as you describe and the 'unproven' picture you paint of the Joyetech and e cig world is entirely plausible. Are you based in SZ ? Ian

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    1. Thanks for the props, Ian. I'm sorry, but I'm not up with all of the acronyms. I tried looking "SZ" up and got results ranging from Swaziland to Switzerland. There was even one entry stating it is an abbreviation used by "teens" to indicate they are sorry. None of the above apply to me. We are located in Orlando, Florida and far from apologetic!

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  5. Well, not surprisingly, all sorts of vitriol was spewed against this post by those who have swallowed the Joyetech KoolAid. What was surprising is that the nasty and moronic comments didn't appear here. Instead, they were all made over at reddit.com, where the story was picked up. I posted a very lengthy reply that addressed at least the somewhat intelligent comments made over at reddit and since then, after 35 comments originally came pouring in, not a single person has chosen to comment at all.

    I'll post the reddit.com rebuttal in a separate comment window, since blogger, the platform this blog is built on, will not accept a comment longer than 4,096 characters.

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  6. My reply to the reddit.com community ...

    It is unfortunate that so many people here have done as I predicted in the first two sentences of the article - they have chosen to believe false "facts" solely because they have been repeated so often.

    Yes, I am the author of the piece you are all discussing. I am sorry I cannot provide you with the names of who I talked to. I made a promise not to identify them and I keep my promises. Still, even if you had the names, what would that prove? Short of having an Ovale or Janty exec wearing a wire with videotaped surveillance, real "proof" will never be possible.

    Maybe this thread on the most well-known electronic cigarette forum will sway some of you - From the inventors of the ego comes the Janty Neo Classic (it starts getting interesting starting at the fourth thread). If that doesn't do it for you, maybe the words of the founder of Janty in an interview with Blake at Guide to Vaping will make you think twice. It is the seventh one from the bottom marked "Ludo/Janty" (and, in case you are wondering, I'm not outing anybody here; he outs himself) - An Interview With The Founder of Janty.

    I'm not sure what being a vendor has to do with making me any less credible. You would think that maybe, just maybe, it might give me access to some people that standard every day users of e-cig products simply don't come into contact with.

    Let's see, what else was there? Because I do not currently sell the Ovale elips-C (yet) doesn't mean I haven't tried it. I'm vaping with an elips-C as I write this - I can't put it down! There are at least 50 e-cigarettes I have tried that I don't sell. I get electronic cigarette samples every month from manufacturers and distributors to try along with literally hundreds of e-liquid samples from various manufacturers (everybody seems to be "manufacturing" their own "USA" e-liquid these days, if by "manufacturing," they mean adding their own flavors to Chinese unflavored e-juice or uncut Chinese liquid nicotine). There are minimum order quantities involved whenever you elect to take on a new model and I still have not decided if the elips-C is at a price point that will be accepted by the majority of my customers. You would think the fact that I DON'T sell a particular e-cig model but still say it is a great one would make it that much more of a credible statement. (Well, at least I would think.)

    Finally, I'll leave you with this quote from an exec at one of the companies - something that I did not include in the piece (sorry, I still won't attribute it) ...

    "China is convenient now because all the sub-supplies are in one place and it’s easy to get products developed quickly. We are looking at other countries mainly to get control of distribution. We are working on finding better options for producing e-cigarettes in the U.S. and in other countries. You’re right, wherever we make them, someone will copy them. We have roughly 3 months from the time a product hits the production line before it gets copied by another company.

    We understand that in order for vaping to be fully accepted, we have to have good products in the market and we have to grow the market to the point where government can only control it and not ban it. It’s the nature of doing business with China. It affects any business done in China. In time, we hope things will change as the e-cigarette market grows up."

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  7. It's a great article. I believe a lot of E Cigarette companies are the same though.

    I started looking through alibaba.com, and found Volcano's "LavaTube" for $15. I did some more research, and I found that most of their, and other companies e cigarettes are made in a warehouse in China, and then labeled differently.

    The way I see it. Volcano, Joyetech, Boge, etc. get their merch in from China, weed out the faulty devices, label, and package. My motto has been, "Go for what's cheap, get spare parts and back ups."

    And, Scott, yes. Once more people start catching on, hopefully we'll see some more affordable domestic e cigarettes.

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  8. The problems would be easily solved if companies manufactured their product in their own country, rather than out sourcing to places like China. Buyers of e-cigs need to petition governments to encourage 'home' manufacture of this product, above all for regulation of chemical content of these things. These cigs are becoming more popular, money is being made, why are the manufacturing breaks on in the West?, there is revenue to be had here, though not as much as the tobacco industry's... is that the reason?.

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    1. You raise a couple of interesting points. I'm not sure if I had several million laying around that I would invest a dime of it into production of anything e-cig at the moment. Who knows what unelected FDA officials will ultimately decide here? Would you really risk that kind of capital on a question mark? Then, there is the whole issue of price. You DO realize that if China was taken out of the equation that you would likely be paying two to three times as much money for your e-cig supplies, including e-juice, don't you? Don't kid yourself into thinking that any of these "Made in the USA" e-juice companies aren't buying their liquid nicotine from China right now. They are lying to you! See our article Made in the USA - Well, Sort Of ...

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  9. Very interesting article Scott. I tend to agree with previous comments regarding your sources names, unfortunately the article is loosing 80% of its credibility without them but raises heavy concerns. It is very true Chinese ecig industry is full of hidden aspects involving blurred marketing strategies, and the consumer has the right to understand what's going on there. I've been to figure out how Kangertech was positionning themselves in this messy market. I've heard of a Joyetech collaboration for their Vapeonly BCC mega, but information is extremely difficult to get. Do you have information about Kanger by any chance ? Thank you.

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    1. This was a fun article to watch comments on - especially at other big forums like the Reddit e-cig one, where people take pot-shots without making them here, in person. You have so many people taking the position that I should name my sources and that it isn't true unless I do, and other people there criticizing me for stating something that is "common knowledge" to people who have been vaping for several years - "So what's the point?" they say, "he isn't saying anything that isn't common knowledge."

      Obviously with the doubters outnumbering those who knew this already, I think it is plain to see what the point is - to inform those who don't know this!

      There are only a few actual e-cigarette factories. The rest that claim to be manufacturers are no more a manufacturer than Greensmoke or BluCigs is. The same could be said for companies like Whirlpool and Maytag, though! Even Tiffany has all of their fine jewelry made for them by subcontracted Chinese factories. It's the way of the world right now and is the primary reason there are so many counterfeit Chinese goods. The same factories that are making things for name brands are churning out their own clones!

      Joyetech is just a factory. They make tons of e-cigarettes for many different companies that they do not then steal the designs of and re-brand. It would not surprise me at all if some very major brands have their e-cigs, cartomizers or atomizers being made by the Joyetech factory. If you ever are able to get the truth from someone in that country about anything, you're better than me. I'll stick to American sources that actually have to deal with Joyetech on a daily basis. So, it wouldn't surprise me at all if the Kanger products were really being made by Joyetech. For all I know, Smoktech is using Joyetech, too! (I don't know that to be true at all ... it could be, though)

      Incidentally, if you didn't see it in one of the above comments, the founder of Janty confirms that they were the ones who invented the 510 and the eGo - http://guidetovaping.com/2012/12/an-interview-with-the-founder-of-janty/

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    2. I just stumbled across this info. I find the info you published very interesting...... and HIGHLY PROBABLE! As far as those calling for you to publish the names of those you got your info from; For what? What are "they" (those asking for names) going to do with that information? Why would anyone doubt that type of activity takes place? Of course it does. You bring up an interesting point about China refusing to do anything about the knockoffs in the fashion industry. Hell, the Chinese are notorious for knocking off automobiles in China.... why would anyone doubt that this goes on in the e-cig business?

      I am thinking that the one thing I can be relatively certain of, is that my Joyetech was probably manufactured by them, and designed by someone else. AND, sorry to say, if it wasn't manufactured in China, I probably couldn't afford it. I hate to say that, but sometimes the truth is a bitch.

      Nice article.

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    3. Thank you for the nice words. The fact is, Joyetech manufactures a ton of e-cigarettes for other companies that they have not re-branded as their own. Half the "knockoffs" of "their own" (really Ovale's and Janty's) products are manufactured by them. They know if they don't manufacture them, somebody else will. And, why not pump out a few more runs with either another label or none at all for an e-cig you are already making? It's just more money for them!

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    4. True story! whatever brands they are, all made by the same manufacturer, or at least same Chinese circuits and chips.

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  10. Welcome to 2013. Get with the program. Rebrand or die

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  11. Thanks for the interesting article. It does clear up some confusion. On http://www.ovaleusa.com/shop/, it says OVALE eCigs are manufactured by Joyetech. On Joyetech's site: http://www.joyetech.com/contact/contact.php, it shows Shenzhen Joyetech Co., Ltd.
    - Is it being manufactured by Shenzhen or is Shenzhen really Joyetech owned.
    On Janty's site: http://www.janty.com/en/about/about-janty
    it claims JoyeTech as "theifs"
    - So is Janty the true manufacturer or Ovale? And if both are, are Ovale's products being manufactured by JoyeTech or Shenzhen?

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  12. The original factory manufacturing all of the above devices was Joyetech. They have several factories and these are/were being manufactured in their Shenzhen, China plant, a city about a half hour outside of Hong Kong.

    Ovale is currently still using Joyetech as their manufacturer but Janty is no longer having any of their products manufactured by any Joyetech factory (I guess they got tired of Joyetech stealing their designs and coming out with their own version before finishing the production run for Janty). Don't at all be surprised if Ovale doesn't part ways from Joyetech in the near future!

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  13. So, how much did Ovale pay you for this shitty article?

    WHO CARES?! The Joyetech is still better quality.

    You have WAY too much spare time on your hands. lol

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    1. Hilarious!!!

      I have too much spare time on my hands? I'm not the one who is trolling the internet, looking for places to make idiotic comments that add nothing of value at all to a conversation.

      How much did Ovale pay me? Probably the same amount Joyetech paid you to claim their non-original e-cig is better than the same exact one they make for Ovale.

      Who cares? Well ... you DID take the time to comment, so ... And, of course, I care, but I'm not a coward who is hiding behind an anonymous identity, either.

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  14. Awesome article! This is exactly the info I have been assuming and looking for. We have been considering going the private label route, and we are trying to uncover the real companies we should be talking to for manufacturing. It sounds like you may very well know who they are (would love to find out).

    FYI - I met some folks from Ovale USA, out of Gainseville, FL, at a vaping convention recently. One of them made a comment to me that the writing is on the wall for their relationship with Joyetech, and that Ovale IS discussing internally who their replacement will be. He did not mention a time frame, but from his demeanor I expect it is not far off.

    ....and yes the Ovale Elips-C is awesome, I am also using one right now :)

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    1. Yes, I also got the impression that they were looking to establish a relationship with another manufacturer who would not steal their designs and claim them as their own. It was even suggested that manufacturing right here in the USA might be a possibility.

      I am in no way bashing Joyetech as a manufacturer; they clearly are top of the line. I just don't agree with their tactics and the deceptive claims they make at the bottom of their website. If you're looking for private label e-cigs to be made fro you, you could certainly do far worse than having Joyetech make them for you. Just don't come out with anything too innovative or they'll hit the streets with your product before you and beat you to the marketing punch!

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    2. Scott, you are a moron. Joytech WAS the original, not Ovale.

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    3. Funny how the people that have such brilliant insights are always the anonymous ones. Keep following the mindless herd. You seem happy lost in the crowd.

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  15. Scott thanks so much for the info! I was sucked into the Joyetech hype there for a while but I always had my doubts about how much "better" they really were. I'm considering starting up my own shop in my hometown soon and would like to pick your brain on some questions I'm having if you have any free time (which according to that anonymous poster up there you've got plenty of LOL)

    Anyways, thanks again and I look forward to discussing some other e-cig topics in the near future.

    Nick

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    1. Don't get me wrong. I'm in no way saying that Joyetech is not a very good manufacturer. They certainly ARE one of the best. They just have never invented any e-cigarette of note and have built their reputation on stealing the prototypes of other companies and launching their clones before they produce the run for the true inventors.

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  16. Hi Scott. Great article my friend. I had a quick question. Have you heard of AtmosRx.com? Are they a true manufacturer as they claim to have their own manufacturing facility in China? If you were new to this business aand were getting into a retail store would you become a distributer for them or would you go private label? would you rather buy from Joytech, Ovale, or Jonty? Which is cheaper or the better product? Also do we as retail shops ordering from Joytech have to worry about getting sued if we buy from them as far as selling a knockoff product? who should we be buying from in order to not have to worry about getting sued if that's even a possibility?

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    1. AtmosRx, BluCigs, Greensmoke, V2 ... pretty much any "name brand" e-cigarette that you can think of is not a true manufacturer in the sense that they actually have a factory that manufacturs electronic cigarettes. The same can be said for all of the Big Tobacco e-cigs that are hitting the shelves of a convenience store near you. All of their e-cigs are made in China by one of the few real e-cig factories. In fact, you could say the same thing for Maytag, Whirlpool and GE (and scads of other "American manufacturers") - all of their kitchen appliances are made in the same Chinese factory. Slightly different parts and a different label.

      Anybody can contact a factory in China and say, "hey, can you make me that same product but put my label on it?" They'll say "sure; we have a minimum order of 300 or 500 kits."

      There are only a handful of real "factories" that manufacture electronic cigarettes (and those "factories" are little more than a room crammed with cubicles of people assembling e-cig components, soldering iron and glue gun in hand).

      All of the rest are simply buying parts from the few factories that do exist and either re-boxing them and/or having already existing e-cig models re-branded with their name. In most cases, the dirt cheap "manufacturers" are buying various parts from different factories (whatever is the cheapest) and assembling the various components from a variety of places to make their own version.

      You're going to have an almost impossible time buying directly from Joyetech these days unless you are buying an incredibly large amount from them. You'll have to buy from one of their authorized distributors and, if rumors are true, they will be limiting those distributorships in the very near future, too.

      I'm not sure what you are referring to as far as getting sued goes. Sued by whom? Joyetech can't sue you - they've never invented anything that they sell. I suppose if you sold a Joye 510 as being a Joyetech Joye 510 and it wasn't, they could try to sue you but they would have to prove that you knew that it wasn't a real Joyetech first - something very hard to prove and certainly not worth the cost of an international attorney. There are several well known distributors who have been mixing knockoff Joyetech parts and kits in with their real ones and they would be much more apt to be sued, I suppose.

      I can't tell you who to order from these days. I don't believe anything anyone in China is telling me. They come out of the crib lying over there! The knockoffs have gotten so good, it's hard to tell what is what anymore. Other than Ovale, I can't be 100% sure that anything I sell on my own websites is really what it says it is and whether the manufacturers I list are really making things, themselves, or buying pieces from other places and re-packaging them.

      On the other hand, there are some companies you can deal with that are manufacturers that don't have outrageous order quantities - SLB, Ovale, SmokeTech and Kanger, to name a few. Even most of them have another factory make their e-cigs for them - I know Ovale products are made at the Joyetech factory, for instance (that may change soon - I hear they are not happy).

      In the end, you need to find someplace that you are comfortable with and that supplies fairly reliable products. I honestly don't give a darn who really makes something as long as it works as expected. And, when it doesn't, be sure you take care of your customers and make things right.

      Delete
  17. Thanks for the reply. Had another rumor I need verification for. According to some distributor they think that the FDA is planning on regulating the industry by posing a million dollar bond to all those shops who want to continue selling ecigs? Thus forcing most shops to close its doors! your thoughts?

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    1. First, my thought is that I believe it is outside of the scope of what the FDA can do, requiring businesses to post bonds. It simply astounds me that a group of unelected government officials who are accountable to nobody have the power that they already do, though.

      Second, you have to ignore most of this FDA rumor stuff. The Wall Street Journal reported that they were considering an internet ban of e-cigs and the FDA immediately denied that. Hours later, the WSJ printed a retraction.

      We'll know soon enough; they are supposed to be listing their "recommendations" in October. Folks need to realize that the FDA cannot pass laws. They can only administer existing laws and make recommendations. The gray area here is that the FDA claims that the Family Smoking Prevention and Tobacco Control Act (thanks, again, Obama) gives them the right to regulate e-cigarettes.

      In the end, it is more than likely that any new rules will be challenged in a court of law. Although in a 2009 Federal District Court ruling, Judge Leon gave the FDA the right to regulate e-cigarettes as a tobacco product (a ruling that still could be challenged), the Family Smoking Prevention and Tobacco Control Act also has a provision in it where the FDA is supposed to be encouraging alternatives to cigarette smoking. They are in kind of a Catch-22 here, aren't they?

      Delete
  18. Not sure if you've noticed. It now states the following on Joyetechs page:

    Joyetech is the original developer of Joye 510, Joye 510-T, Joye eGo, Joye eGo-T(Tank System), Joye eGo-C(Changeable system), Joye eGo-C Twist battery Electronic Cigarette, Joye eCab Changeable Atomizer Battery Electronic Cigarette and Joyetech also develops Joye e-juice, Joye flavors, Joye smoke juice.

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  19. Yes, I mentioned that in the article. I could put that at the bottom of my website, too. That doesn't make it true, though.

    If there's one thing that you learn real fast doing business with China, it's that it is a country where lying is more common than telling the truth. In this country, children are punished for not telling the truth. Over there, I suspect they are rewarded ... "Good lie, son. Have some candy!"

    Joyetech is just a factory and they were the original manufacturers because they were contracted by Janty, and then Ovale, to manufacture their e-cigs for them. I suppose you could say they were the original developers of the clones they made from those devices, though!

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    1. I think you missed the key word from (different) Anonymous above.

      Your blog post states the verbiage as:
      Joyetech is the original MANUFACTURER of...

      The website now states:
      Joyetech is the original DEVELOPER of...

      Delete
    2. I see. Yes, I did miss that.

      Of course, I'm not sure why they switched the verbiage, since "developer" is a pretty ambiguous word. Although there are many connotations of the word, none of them suggest "creator" or "inventor." I suppose this definition of the word "develop" describes Joyetech the best:

      "To bring from latency to or toward fulfillment"

      Delete
  20. So, as someone who wants to sell electronic cigs, selling cigs with eGo on them is OK because the manufacturer invented it anyway? I'm confused, I guess. The whole trademarking thing makes me REALLY nervous. I've had some manufacturers tell me that they can reduce the log (take it off?) Will people buy it without the eGo logo?

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    1. The original eGo was invented by Janty and was manufactured by Joyetech. The original eGo-T and eGo-C were invented by Ovale and manufactured by Joyetech. Joyetech claims to have "developed" all of them, though (whatever that means).

      "eGo" is not a trademarked word and neither is "Joye". Sell it as an eGo but put who the manufacturer is. It comes down to salesmanship. Maybe try "You can pay more for a Joyetech if you want or you can save money and get the same thing here made by XXXXXXXXX. Our eGo carries a XX day warranty ... blah, blah, blah ..."

      In the end, the only thing customers really care about is that it works and if they have problems, you will stand behind what you sell and take care of them.

      I wouldn't be too nervous about anything involving China and trademarks. They laugh at international trademark laws over there.

      Delete
    2. Ahhhhhhh, got it. Thanks!

      Delete
  21. You need to educate yourself on business or take a couple business courses before writing an article like this and embarrassing yourself. Complete ignorance on all levels of how companies and their manufacturers conduct business

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    1. Thank you for pointing out specifically what I got wrong in this case. Come back to me and show me what I got wrong after meeting with the top executives at Ovale or Janty, as I have done.

      Don't give me some generic spiel about how business is supposed to work. Talk about ignorance!

      Of course, you can't embarrass yourself. You hide behind "Anonymous" and are too much of a coward to state your name.

      Delete
  22. Very interesting Scott !! Thanks for the info.. btw, do you know who is the chinese provider/manufacturer of Greensmoke products? thx Mike

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    1. Sorry, but that's just another one of those proprietary secrets. One of the reasons I never even considered that e-cigarette is the cost of the batteries. I couldn't believe how much they were charging for those!

      That said, I found this thread over at e-cigarette-forum.com that discusses Greensmoke compatible devices - Is there an ecig that fits the greensmoke carts?

      Delete
  23. Hi Scott, very interesting article, thank you for that. It makes me, as vendor, even more mad about Joyetech's newest policy that newly developed products (starting with the eGo-CC, eMode, eCom) are not allowed to be sold online but by very few selected vendors.

    Another interesting thing that supports your claims: Take a look at the image on the top of this page: http://www.joyetech.com/product/eGoC.php - Do you see the "OVALE" logo on the atomizer head? It was on the bigger version on this page, http://www.joyetech.com/product/details.php?gno=101, too, but they removed it there.

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    1. Pretty dumb of them to leave that in the picture! It is not a claim; it is a fact.

      I haven't looked at the eGo-CC, the eMode or the eCom to see who else came out with the same product right about the same time (usually a month later) but I guarantee you that Joyetech didn't invent it. They all sure seem VERY similar to the products that SMOK Tech offers, though, and I have long suspected that Joyetech is the factory that produces SMOK Tech's products.

      Who knows? Getting anything but lies from China is an impossibility!

      Delete
  24. i just found this really old posting ON JOYETECH'S OWN WEBSITE that appears to substantiate scott's claims. it was written nearly 4 years ago, well b4 joye couldve ever known that egos branded as joye would be the only ones considered genuine:

    http://joyetech.com/board/news_view.php?no=354&page=3

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    1. Thanks for supplying that link. I have no doubt that everything I have written is 100% true. It's amazing to me how many people are so utterly clueless about this, but, sadly, not surprising at all, either!

      The next time you see Joyetech announcing a new product of "theirs," see what other company announces the same exact thing within a month of Joyetech's announcement and stolen first run. THAT will be the true inventor of the product.

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  25. The only evidence that is apparent is that Scott McKirahan has been hurt in some very personal way by Joyetech. Otherwise, it's all just "he said/they said".

    Something much more effective, not to mention provable, is needed to address the very real problem of international patent counterfeiting.

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    1. Really? Where is that "evidence"? There is no such thing as "apparent evidence."

      Tell you what ... why don't you try marketing a counterfeit eVic and see who comes after you. I guarantee you it will be Ovale - they've already done so with every product I have listed above. Joyetech does not own the patent on any of those devices and couldn't sue you if they wanted to!

      Ovale's patent number for the eVic is 2012-9989 with a design registration number 2012-52169. Joyetech, on the other hand, puts up an all-Chinese page with their alleged patents that is nothing but blurry, fake certificates. They know that the dumbest of people will be fooled by it. Check out the page and you will see the identical copied signature with two stamps that miraculously appear in exactly the same spot on every certificate. The only one that MAY be legitimate is the very last one - probably a patent for forging patent certificates! http://www.joyetech.com/about/patent.php

      Delete

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