Finally, I said "to heck with it" and, at the risk of pissing some people off who think they know it all, I'm going to tell you the real story about the Joyetech electronic cigarette factory, so here goes ...
At the bottom of the Joyetech website, the following message appears:
"Joyetech is the original manufacturer of Joye 510, Joye 510-T, Joye eGo, Joye eGo-T(Tank System), Joye eGo-C(Changeable system), Joye eGo-C Twist battery Electronic Cigarette, Joye eCab Changeable Atomizer Battery Electronic Cigarette, Joye eRoll, Joye eVic ..."
Now, at first glance, it would seem like they are telling people that they were the creators of these devices and that all others are imposters. That's not what it really says, though. They simply state that they manufactured them first.
"Huh?" you may ask, "Aren't they the same thing?"
I'm afraid not! You see, Joyetech is just a factory; nothing more. They have never invented a single noteworthy electronic cigarette and likely never will. Why should they when they can get other companies to do it for them and then steal their designs?
After conducting several interviews with sources at the very top of the food chain of competing e-cigarette manufacturers, I found out that every single one of the electronic cigarette models that Joyetech mentions at the bottom of their website was invented by either Ovale or Janty. Joyetech was simply the factory that produced the original run for those companies while creating their own clone versions in the process. Here are the e-cigarette models and who really invented them:
| Model | Inventor |
|---|---|
| 510 | Janty as the Dura |
| eGo | Janty |
| eGo-T | Ovale |
| eGo-C | Ovale |
| eGo-C Twist | Ovale |
| eCab | Ovale |
| eRoll | Ovale as the eMini |
| eVic | Ovale |
| Side Note: For some reason, Joyetech didn't steal the elips or elips-C e-cigarettes from Ovale. Likely, their distributors thought it was too odd looking and took a pass on it. Too bad for them; Ovale got the jump in that case and the elips-C is probably the best electronic cigarette of them all! |
There is no denying that the Joyetech factory is one of the better plants in China. They've been doing it for quite some time and, even though Joyetech loses nearly 50% of their workers every year because they find better paying opportunities during China's annual two week Spring Festival break, Joyetech is able to retrain a whole new crop of starving factory hands within three months. Because they have a solid reputation, Janty and Ovale chose to use the Joyetech factory to manufacture their inventions.
After the technical drawings are submitted to Joyetech, a prototype is created for final approval by the company who invented the electronic cigarette. Once approved, the shenanigans begin. Joyetech then contacts their vast network of authorized distributors and provides them with samples of the initial run. When they like the new model, the distributors and Joyetech management press hard for relabeling rights, reasoning that they can only sell official "Joyetech" products. Janty and/or Ovale are then told that if they want the e-cig made, they will have to give up their exclusive rights to it and allow Joyetech to market their own brand.
So, what can the true inventors of these devices do? Joyetech already has the plans and if the true inventors say "no" to re-branding, Joyetech can produce the e-cig at one of their shell companies while Janty or Ovale start the process all over again with another manufacturer. This would give the other company a HUGE head start on marketing and by the time the real McCoy is produced, it becomes a "so what" in the fast moving world of e-cig innovation. It's bad enough that Joyetech steals the first run for themselves and stamps it with their own logo, thereby creating the impression that they were the original inventors; at least Ovale and Janty can come within a month or two of Joyetech's initial release by allowing Joyetech to manufacture it for them. It would be a 6-12 months if they started all over again with another factory and who's to say that factory wouldn't steal it, too?
| Side Note: Joyetech did not even wait for final approval of the eGo-C Twist before they started pumping out their own versions, which must be why theirs had so many problems initially. |
If you return to the Chart of Models, you will notice that Janty stopped letting Joyetech manufacturer their new products after their second one was stolen by Joyetech - the eGo. The writing's on the wall. Ovale, too, is likely quite fed up with the crap being pulled by Joyetech. They may very well just be waiting for their pending patents to come through on all of the models they invented that Joyetech calls their own. Then, who knows if Joyetech will ever see another new e-cig tossed into their lap?
So, "what's the difference?" you may ask. Joyetech makes the model for the other companies so the ones they make for themselves should be identical, right? Well, even if you have absolutely no morals at all and want to think that way, there may very well be a difference when it comes to quality control. According to a top executive at one of companies, they certainly have rejected some of the runs made by Joyetech due to poor quality control. One can only wonder if Joyetech does the same for the ones stamped with their own logo (highly unlikely!). Talk to owners of a Janty product or one made by Ovale, and 9 out of 10 will tell you that they think the Janty or Ovale ones are better than the Joyetech versions. I'd have to agree!
So, the next time you see someone on a forum talking about someone selling a fake or a clone of anything Joyetech calls their own, ask yourself, "is there really such a thing as a fake, fake?" And please, don't ever call something made by Joyetech an original. You're embarrassing yourself!
| One Final Note: I have chosen not to name the manufacturing executives that have provided me with the above information. There is no reason to subject them to reprisals by either their own company or by Joyetech. That said, nothing outlined above can be factually refuted. |
thats a sad picture you paint.the scratching and clawing of corporate greed will some day be the fall of man.plenty are willing to jump on the band wagon for the fall of corporations but when they fall so does the comforts of home.the double edge sword will certainly play a big role in these matters
ReplyDeleteInteresting article - thanks for posting. After all I cannot really agree that it is that much bad. At the big picture, everyone makes profit - in the end, profit goes to the better product and or marketing companies. Ovale etc can everytime decide to produce on their own - if they don't want to do so they have to rely on others - simple thing. That's competition.
DeleteLook what apple is doing currently - thanks to patent law - is that better? not really. it's worse.
In my opinion - who makes the better product (no matter if it is quality or marketing related) will get the best profits - not the one who invented it or who was first.
That's healthy competition. Look at cars - what hell of a world would it be, when only ford would be allowed to built cars because they were the first who do it industrialy? Get the point? Patent Law is hell and has nothing to do with competition.
While agree with you about the whole concept of a generic product that is then improved upon or at least made different, that's not what is happening here. It is the same exact product. I'm quite sure if Ford duplicated the Corvette and called it something else, Chevy might have a bone to pick with them.
DeleteMore than anything, I wanted people to realize how idiotic it is to call anything a "fake" Joye, unless, of course, people are specifically saying a model is made by Joyetech when it is not. There is no such electronic cigarette company named "Joye."
One Final Note: I have chosen not to name the manufacturing executives that have provided me with the above information. There is no reason to subject them to reprisals by either their own company or by Joyetech. That said, nothing outlined above can be factually refuted.
ReplyDeleteI read this piece with great interest, and tried to place myself as both a consumer and as a vendor, even tho I am not a vendor. So my first thought is this: How can you say "nothing outlined can be factually refuted" without providing factual proof from factual people about a subject you are factually trying to outline?
This article makes a good argument and it's very compelling as to it's assertions. As a consumer I want to know about this kind of shit. I want to be informed, good and bad, about something that has helped me kick analogs off my daily routine. But to say that "nothing outlined above can be factually refuted" without providing proof is factually dangerous in the conclusions one could draw without proof and therefore, is effectively, hearsay.
That's like saying, "I'm going to prove something to you, without actual evidence because of BLAH BLAH WHATEVER, and it's something you can't refute.
That said, nothing outlined above can be factually refuted.
Like I said at the beginning, there will inevitably be some people who choose to believe the lies they have been fed for years and there is nothing I can do about that. I certainly am not going to "out" the executives who were kind enough to provide me with the information. I promised to keep their names out of the article and I keep my promises.
DeleteEven providing their names would not be "proof" of anything. All I can do is tell you what I have been told by top industry execs so that e-cig consumers can "be informed, good and bad, about something that has helped [them] kick analogs ..."
Unfortunately, short of recording the meetings that go on between these companies with hidden surveillance equipment, real "proof" would be very hard to come by. Maybe this thread from a well-respected forum will shed some further light onto this for you From the inventors of the ego comes the Janty Neo Classic.
This sounds bad but not as bad as what I have heard from someone in the ecig industry. Joytech isn't a manufacturer, they are a wholesaler and thy get their ecigs from the same factory in china that smoktech and vision get their batteries. That all the ego style batteries are made in the same factory, just the ones for the different wholesalers have their own details put on the devices i.e. the difference between the vision spinner and the ego twist. But their internals are all the same. So when you buy a joyetech your not paying for a better device at higher standards you are paying for the name.
ReplyDeleteJoyetech is, indeed, a factory and not merely a wholesaler. If you look at Ovale products, they DO state that they are manufactured by the Joyetech factory.
DeleteNow, as far as companies re-branding products goes, if you have a minimum order of 500 units, Joyetech will stamp whatever you want on them. We explored this, ourselves, awhile back. It is not at all far-fetched to believe that many companies' products are being made at Joyetech. There are only a handful of actual e-cigarette factories. If you think nJoy, bluCig or GreenSmoke is a true manufacturer, for instance, you are kidding yourselves. They are just major re-branders.
Very informative. Thanks, Scott. I have been trying to sift through the many, many brands and models that Joytech produce and label - in particular the chronology of the various models - and was getting confused. Chinese business culture is often as you describe and the 'unproven' picture you paint of the Joyetech and e cig world is entirely plausible. Are you based in SZ ? Ian
ReplyDeleteThanks for the props, Ian. I'm sorry, but I'm not up with all of the acronyms. I tried looking "SZ" up and got results ranging from Swaziland to Switzerland. There was even one entry stating it is an abbreviation used by "teens" to indicate they are sorry. None of the above apply to me. We are located in Orlando, Florida and far from apologetic!
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DeleteWell, not surprisingly, all sorts of vitriol was spewed against this post by those who have swallowed the Joyetech KoolAid. What was surprising is that the nasty and moronic comments didn't appear here. Instead, they were all made over at reddit.com, where the story was picked up. I posted a very lengthy reply that addressed at least the somewhat intelligent comments made over at reddit and since then, after 35 comments originally came pouring in, not a single person has chosen to comment at all.
ReplyDeleteI'll post the reddit.com rebuttal in a separate comment window, since blogger, the platform this blog is built on, will not accept a comment longer than 4,096 characters.
My reply to the reddit.com community ...
ReplyDeleteIt is unfortunate that so many people here have done as I predicted in the first two sentences of the article - they have chosen to believe false "facts" solely because they have been repeated so often.
Yes, I am the author of the piece you are all discussing. I am sorry I cannot provide you with the names of who I talked to. I made a promise not to identify them and I keep my promises. Still, even if you had the names, what would that prove? Short of having an Ovale or Janty exec wearing a wire with videotaped surveillance, real "proof" will never be possible.
Maybe this thread on the most well-known electronic cigarette forum will sway some of you - From the inventors of the ego comes the Janty Neo Classic (it starts getting interesting starting at the fourth thread). If that doesn't do it for you, maybe the words of the founder of Janty in an interview with Blake at Guide to Vaping will make you think twice. It is the seventh one from the bottom marked "Ludo/Janty" (and, in case you are wondering, I'm not outing anybody here; he outs himself) - An Interview With The Founder of Janty.
I'm not sure what being a vendor has to do with making me any less credible. You would think that maybe, just maybe, it might give me access to some people that standard every day users of e-cig products simply don't come into contact with.
Let's see, what else was there? Because I do not currently sell the Ovale elips-C (yet) doesn't mean I haven't tried it. I'm vaping with an elips-C as I write this - I can't put it down! There are at least 50 e-cigarettes I have tried that I don't sell. I get electronic cigarette samples every month from manufacturers and distributors to try along with literally hundreds of e-liquid samples from various manufacturers (everybody seems to be "manufacturing" their own "USA" e-liquid these days, if by "manufacturing," they mean adding their own flavors to Chinese unflavored e-juice or uncut Chinese liquid nicotine). There are minimum order quantities involved whenever you elect to take on a new model and I still have not decided if the elips-C is at a price point that will be accepted by the majority of my customers. You would think the fact that I DON'T sell a particular e-cig model but still say it is a great one would make it that much more of a credible statement. (Well, at least I would think.)
Finally, I'll leave you with this quote from an exec at one of the companies - something that I did not include in the piece (sorry, I still won't attribute it) ...
"China is convenient now because all the sub-supplies are in one place and it’s easy to get products developed quickly. We are looking at other countries mainly to get control of distribution. We are working on finding better options for producing e-cigarettes in the U.S. and in other countries. You’re right, wherever we make them, someone will copy them. We have roughly 3 months from the time a product hits the production line before it gets copied by another company.
We understand that in order for vaping to be fully accepted, we have to have good products in the market and we have to grow the market to the point where government can only control it and not ban it. It’s the nature of doing business with China. It affects any business done in China. In time, we hope things will change as the e-cigarette market grows up."
It's a great article. I believe a lot of E Cigarette companies are the same though.
ReplyDeleteI started looking through alibaba.com, and found Volcano's "LavaTube" for $15. I did some more research, and I found that most of their, and other companies e cigarettes are made in a warehouse in China, and then labeled differently.
The way I see it. Volcano, Joyetech, Boge, etc. get their merch in from China, weed out the faulty devices, label, and package. My motto has been, "Go for what's cheap, get spare parts and back ups."
And, Scott, yes. Once more people start catching on, hopefully we'll see some more affordable domestic e cigarettes.
The problems would be easily solved if companies manufactured their product in their own country, rather than out sourcing to places like China. Buyers of e-cigs need to petition governments to encourage 'home' manufacture of this product, above all for regulation of chemical content of these things. These cigs are becoming more popular, money is being made, why are the manufacturing breaks on in the West?, there is revenue to be had here, though not as much as the tobacco industry's... is that the reason?.
ReplyDeleteYou raise a couple of interesting points. I'm not sure if I had several million laying around that I would invest a dime of it into production of anything e-cig at the moment. Who knows what unelected FDA officials will ultimately decide here? Would you really risk that kind of capital on a question mark? Then, there is the whole issue of price. You DO realize that if China was taken out of the equation that you would likely be paying two to three times as much money for your e-cig supplies, including e-juice, don't you? Don't kid yourself into thinking that any of these "Made in the USA" e-juice companies aren't buying their liquid nicotine from China right now. They are lying to you! See our article Made in the USA - Well, Sort Of ...
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